|
|
Post by DropThePuck on Feb 14, 2013 10:59:16 GMT -4
What's the scoop here? Why is this trade being reviewed. Is BLB suggesting that Tesink was damaged goods and that SJ knowingly held back info on his medical condition? Personally, I would think that BLB should do their "due diligence" and make sure he was healthy before pulling the trigger no?  |
|
|
|
Post by j4m13 on Feb 14, 2013 11:10:16 GMT -4
Apparently, it's been discovered that tesink's knee healed at a bad angle or something.
Not sure why the trade is subject to review, other than the obvious "QMJHL hates Saint John" conspiracy.
|
|
|
|
Post by DropThePuck on Feb 14, 2013 11:16:44 GMT -4
Apparently, it's been discovered that tesink's knee healed at a bad angle or something. Not sure why the trade is subject to review, other than the obvious "QMJHL hates Saint John" conspiracy. ;D Interesting....this could be a precedent ruling. Pardon the pun, but I don't see BLB having a leg to stand on here unless they can somehow prove that Saint John knowingly withheld this information but again, I think it's up to BLB to do due diligence here.....just like if I were to buy a used car and only find out afterwards that it was in an accident. The onus is on me to run the VIN number before the purchase... |
|
|
|
Post by porkchop on Feb 14, 2013 11:33:49 GMT -4
I see another case of a team grasping at straws.........RN is the only team in a while that has a legit concern for a review.
|
|
|
|
Post by porkchop on Feb 15, 2013 18:51:10 GMT -4
|
|
|
|
Post by mikemyers on Feb 17, 2013 16:02:07 GMT -4
I would think any trade is conditional on a player's injury/health status unless a team knows the player they are acquiring has an injury (ie very minor one) and is willing to acquire him anyways. I am not sure of protocol but do teams have to disclose old injuries the player has had when talking trades with other teams, especially ones that can be re-aggravated? I can't see a team having to disclose too much/certain info regarding injuries.
Not sure how BLB will be able to prove that the player was injured when they traded for him especially where the player didn't miss any games during the season with injury and had played 6 games with his new team. The only I can think of as proof is the player telling his new team that his former team knew he had a lingering/nagging type of injury, other wise all that Saint John has to say is the injury could have been caused or even re-aggravated in the 6 games that he played with his new team.
|
|
|
|
Post by porkchop on Feb 17, 2013 21:21:28 GMT -4
I would think any trade is conditional on a player's injury/health status unless a team knows the player they are acquiring has an injury (ie very minor one) and is willing to acquire him anyways. I am not sure of protocol but do teams have to disclose old injuries the player has had when talking trades with other teams, especially ones that can be re-aggravated? I can't see a team having to disclose too much/certain info regarding injuries. Not sure how BLB will be able to prove that the player was injured when they traded for him especially where the player didn't miss any games during the season with injury and had played 6 games with his new team. The only I can think of as proof is the player telling his new team that his former team knew he had a lingering/nagging type of injury, other wise all that Saint John has to say is the injury could have been caused or even re-aggravated in the 6 games that he played with his new team. Tesink had surgury over the summer......anybody on the messages boards could figure that out.......if BLB couldn't, I'd say it's dumb on them for not doing their homework. |
|
|
|
Post by mikemyers on Feb 17, 2013 22:11:13 GMT -4
I didn't realize he had surgery. Perhaps BLB is thinking/believing he wasn't fully recovered from it or re-aggravated the injury just before the trade but either way I think it would be hard to prove.
|
|
|
|
Post by porkchop on Feb 18, 2013 0:11:01 GMT -4
I didn't realize he had surgery. Perhaps BLB is thinking/believing he wasn't fully recovered from it or re-aggravated the injury just before the trade but either way I think it would be hard to prove. definately hard to prove........he played every game for Saint John before the trade, I believe, besides a 2 games suspension. |
|
|
|
Post by j4m13 on Feb 18, 2013 10:03:02 GMT -4
I thought it was moderately common knowledge that Tesink was playing and planned to play the entire season at less than 100%. It was clearly not having a major effect on his play.
Maybe he suffered what would have been a minor tweak for most, but was enough to shut him down, so BLB is crying foul based on not knowing the extent of his ongoing injury. But if a guy in the stands with no particular connections knows about a medical issue, how can a league GM justify not knowing?
|
|
|
|
Post by steveul on Feb 18, 2013 14:33:13 GMT -4
I thought it was moderately common knowledge that Tesink was playing and planned to play the entire season at less than 100%. It was clearly not having a major effect on his play. Maybe he suffered what would have been a minor tweak for most, but was enough to shut him down, so BLB is crying foul based on not knowing the extent of his ongoing injury. But if a guy in the stands with no particular connections knows about a medical issue, how can a league GM justify not knowing? "no particular connections" ... except being a diehard fan that discusses the ins and outs of the team daily. I didn't know this info ... it may have been common knowledge in SJ but I think it is a stretch to suggest that any GM in the Q should have known that. No GM has the right to know the medical condition of players on other teams unless they are in negotiations to trade for them. I would expect every Q team has a medical file on each player on their own team and that file would be shared with an interested team ... and would follow the player to his new team. If that file says ... "player can play but has limited mobility and discomfort that will have to be addressed with surgery in the off-season" ... then BBL would have no leg to stand on as the information is there for them. If the file says nothing about him needing off-season surgery then I would suggest that the information was withheld ... if what you are saying is accurate about Tesink's condition. I see somebody playing 37 games and putting up points ... being an effective player ... and to me that kid is playing because he is "good to go". If he missed 15 games before returning in December then maybe I want to look at things closer and would know to ask about a knee injury he just returned from. I'm not suggesting that SJ withheld anything ... I'm just commenting on what you are saying. To me ... it matters what information that SJ provided to BBL on his medical condition. If there was "common knowledge" that he wasn't 100% then it should have been disclosed either verbally or in his medical file that would be shared with BBL. Maybe it was. |
|
|
|
Post by j4m13 on Feb 18, 2013 15:27:58 GMT -4
"no particular connections" ... except being a diehard fan that discusses the ins and outs of the team daily. I didn't know this info ... it may have been common knowledge in SJ but I think it is a stretch to suggest that any GM in the Q should have known that. Exactlyas I said, no particular connection. I didn't discuss it with his doctor or with any team official, but the news got back to me. I'm just a dude in the stands, not actively seeking info. If I'm a QMJHL GM, thinking about trading for a player, you bet your ass I'm actively seeking info, and I don't think it's a stretch at all to consider it commonplace for a GM to do due diligence (whether formal or informal) on medical histories of potential trade targets. Maybe tghis is where the issue lies, and BLB feels SJ lied about the extent of Tesink's condition. I have no idea what the basis of their argument is. All I'm saying is (IMO, of course), if the BLB GM looked at a stat sheet and traded a first round draft pick, caveat emptor. |
|
|
|
Post by steveul on Feb 18, 2013 15:46:53 GMT -4
"no particular connections" ... except being a diehard fan that discusses the ins and outs of the team daily. I didn't know this info ... it may have been common knowledge in SJ but I think it is a stretch to suggest that any GM in the Q should have known that. Exactlyas I said, no particular connection. I didn't discuss it with his doctor or with any team official, but the news got back to me. I'm just a dude in the stands, not actively seeking info. If I'm a QMJHL GM, thinking about trading for a player, you bet your ass I'm actively seeking info, and I don't think it's a stretch at all to consider it commonplace for a GM to do due diligence (whether formal or informal) on medical histories of potential trade targets. Maybe tghis is where the issue lies, and BLB feels SJ lied about the extent of Tesink's condition. I have no idea what the basis of their argument is. All I'm saying is (IMO, of course), if the BLB GM looked at a stat sheet and traded a first round draft pick, caveat emptor. So you are suggesting that BBL's GM should have been following discussions on SJ's messageboard to find his information ? I'm not suggesting anything was done wrong ... but if what you are saying is true ... Tesink was not 100% and would need another surgery in the off-season ... that is information that should have been made available to BBL up-front and SJ should have no reason to hide it ... especially if as you say it was "common knowledge". If that information was not relayed ... whether it be verbally or within his medical file ... then it was withheld ... and that could become a problem. All of these kids have dental records and medical records that follow them as they go from team to team. Just like you would have your dental records transferred to a new dentist if you moved to a new town for a career move. That type of transfer is standard practice ... but perhaps it took place after the fact ... after the deal was done and Tesink was already playing. If Bouchard calls up Kelly about the deal and asks the question "how is his condition ?" ... the answer should be "less than 100% but off-season surgery should fix that ... he has played well for us in spite of some discomfort". But If the answer is "great ... he has played all games this year except when he was suspended" ... then that answer is misleading and that would be problematic. I look at it and see a kid that played all year and played 6 games after the trade ... and went out injured. From that viewpoint ... SJ did nothing wrong. But if SJ made certain representations during the trade discussions that weren't as accurate as they should have been ... then that is where the problem comes in. I don't think that this deal gets undone when you look at it on the surface ... and so it will have to be something related to a misrepresentation that SJ made on Tesink's medical condition ... that will undo things. None of us can know about any of that ... so it is up to both sides to state their case and the Q will decide. I can't recall any other recent instance of this occurring ... so it is tough to understand the process. But the Q has no choice but to investigate if BBL files a grievance. |
|
|
|
Post by jfk on Feb 18, 2013 16:39:56 GMT -4
Personal medical records are of a confidential nature and cannot be shared from one team to the other just like that.
It has to have the approval of the player or even his parents if the player is under adulthood.
I don't see any team being into preliminary bargaining with the Sea Dogs getting medical information about Tesink before the deal being agreed upon and approved by the Q....
This is the nature of the beast about medical information and any physician releasing confidential stuff can be subject to very tough sanctions.
Even then they needed Tesink's approval before passing medical info to BLB.
|
|
|
|
Post by rmiller on Feb 18, 2013 18:26:53 GMT -4
As has been mentioned previously, Tesink scored at more than a ppg pace this season in SJ and then played 6 games after the trade. First star in 2 of them. I find it hard to believe that whatever happened to cause him to be unable to play at this point in time didn't happen in an Armada jersey.
According to the yahoo article, the league hearing was today in Montreal. Any word on the outcome yet?
|
|
