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Post by reesor on Feb 18, 2013 9:39:20 GMT -4
Just posting here for those of you that don't go on the other Maritime boards/HF Boards. Ross Johnston and Brian Lovell got in an ugly altercation Saturday night that resulted in Johnston hitting Lovell in the face with his stick and breaking his jaw. Some replays: Slow-Motion: link.brightcove.com/services/...=2172289036001Picture: twitpic.com/c4oxrfLovell will be out at least 6 weeks with a broken jaw. There are a lot of opinions out there from all teams. Some say it was accidental. Some say it was accidental but extremely wreckless. And some say it was "heat of the moment" intentional. I want to say it was just extremely wreckless. There's no place for intentional baseball swings in hockey at all, regardless of the team you hope for. That slow motion replay doesn't look good though. What do you guys think?
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Post by DropThePuck on Feb 18, 2013 10:18:30 GMT -4
I'll agree that it was very reckless but not at all intentional. His stick was clearly jammed in the boards and he's trying very, very hard to pull it out so that he can get back in to the play IMO. It's an unfortunate incident but some are calling for Johnston to be suspended for the rest of the season which is absolutely ridiculous!!!.....maybe a couple of games but that's it IMO. Just an unfortunate accident IMO. **edit** - apparently Johnston shouldn't have skated away as though nothing happened. The fact that he does makes him "guilty"...I'm not sure how that is, but that's what is "supposed" to happen when accidental contact occurs. Lovell is hurt and that sucks - understandably Moose fans are upset, but I just don't see how anyone can think this was intentional....I don't see it.
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Post by porkchop on Feb 18, 2013 15:03:06 GMT -4
100% purely accidental......he gave the stick a good pull and it stayed....then gave it another pull and it came out....he turned to get into the play.......from the looks of the regular speed video, I'm not even sure if he realized he had hit Lovell
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Post by runningamok on Feb 18, 2013 15:49:51 GMT -4
It looks slightly reckless, but far from intentional
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Post by rmiller on Feb 18, 2013 17:54:36 GMT -4
I didn't see the game but have watched the replay several times. Did Johnston and Lovell have any previous "run-ins" in the game with each other? Seems unlikely that Johnston would two hand the opposing player he happens to be tangled up with along the boards in the face on purpose, even if he was frustrated. That's incredibly dangerous, and I'm sure he's aware of that.
Reckless - yes, the stick was stuck between the glass and he couldn't get it out. Accidentalm but regardless, you must be responsible for your stick at all times.
Intentional - No. Lovell was down on the ice, the stick came out as he got up and I doubt Johnston saw that he hit him, hence skating away without reacting, he was turning back to get back to the play. Had Lovell been down 2 seconds longer that stick would have sailed over him. At this speed, pretty hard to time that intentionally in my opinion.
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Geno
4th liner
Posts: 3
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Post by Geno on Feb 19, 2013 1:07:37 GMT -4
100% purely accidental......he gave the stick a good pull and it stayed....then gave it another pull and it came out....he turned to get into the play.......from the looks of the regular speed video, I'm not even sure if he realized he had hit Lovell Huh? Anyone who has played hockey knows when something hits your stick, you'd feel it ... There's no you could hit someone's jaw (he knew Lovell was there) and not feel it or realize it. No chance. A case could be made for incidental and intentional ... It was done in the heat of the moment. The Cats had come off the rails and were trailing at this point in the 3rd, his stick is stuck in the glass (which would be annoying), and Lovell is in close contact with him and also gave him an accidental slash as he fell ... he reacted poorly, and may have just been going for Lovell's stick. Another way of looking at that is the way in which Johnston freed his stick from the glass. A poster of HF mentioned this and it's something I didn't think too much of until now ... If Lovell is not there, and it's just Johnston trying to get his stick free, why would he rotate his wrists, grip the stick with two hands and swing like it like a baseball bat? It would indeed look very strange in the manner than he did it. Johnston would have shown some reaction to this if it was completely an accident ... If you haven't already guessed, I'm in favor of the intent theory ... I just find it hard for example, for Johnston to explain why/how he freed his stick like that ... I can easily see how some think it's accidental, and it's certainly a very reckless act, but I also see a little from column A and a little from column B ... Reckless act + and injured player. You can make a case that a suspension should be for an act not a result, but I don't think you should discard player safety when making a decision, and Lovell is going to miss upwards of 6 weeks ... We should see a decision made tomorrow, but I say 8 games.
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Post by porkchop on Feb 19, 2013 7:44:24 GMT -4
100% purely accidental......he gave the stick a good pull and it stayed....then gave it another pull and it came out....he turned to get into the play.......from the looks of the regular speed video, I'm not even sure if he realized he had hit Lovell Huh? Anyone who has played hockey knows when something hits your stick, you'd feel it ... There's no you could hit someone's jaw (he knew Lovell was there) and not feel it or realize it. No chance. A case could be made for incidental and intentional ... It was done in the heat of the moment. The Cats had come off the rails and were trailing at this point in the 3rd, his stick is stuck in the glass (which would be annoying), and Lovell is in close contact with him and also gave him an accidental slash as he fell ... he reacted poorly, and may have just been going for Lovell's stick. Another way of looking at that is the way in which Johnston freed his stick from the glass. A poster of HF mentioned this and it's something I didn't think too much of until now ... If Lovell is not there, and it's just Johnston trying to get his stick free, why would he rotate his wrists, grip the stick with two hands and swing like it like a baseball bat? It would indeed look very strange in the manner than he did it. Johnston would have shown some reaction to this if it was completely an accident ... If you haven't already guessed, I'm in favor of the intent theory ... I just find it hard for example, for Johnston to explain why/how he freed his stick like that ... I can easily see how some think it's accidental, and it's certainly a very reckless act, but I also see a little from column A and a little from column B ... Reckless act + and injured player. You can make a case that a suspension should be for an act not a result, but I don't think you should discard player safety when making a decision, and Lovell is going to miss upwards of 6 weeks ... We should see a decision made tomorrow, but I say 8 games. He pulled his stick out and turned toward the play........the momentum of the pull and wanting to get back into the play is more than likely why his wrist rotated, etc............people are grasping at straws, trying too hard to make this something it was not, when bringing up things like that.......Lovell was down on the ice when he first tugged it.......Johnston was looking at his stick, and I'm not even sure he realized Lovell was back on his feet, when the stick came out.........Looking for little things like how he pulled his stick out is stupid.....fact is, his stick was stuck and he gave it a couple good yanks to get it out.....the same as any other player would have done. Saying he would have shown some reaction if it were an accident, is also trying to add something too it that isn't there........if he didn't realize he did it, he wouldn't turn toward the player.......if he had hit him and realized it, he would have turned for a reaction, or to see what hit his stick........to say there was any malicious intent there, is disgruntled fans, wanting it to be something it's not.
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Post by reesor on Feb 19, 2013 8:06:25 GMT -4
Huh? Anyone who has played hockey knows when something hits your stick, you'd feel it ... There's no you could hit someone's jaw (he knew Lovell was there) and not feel it or realize it. No chance. A case could be made for incidental and intentional ... It was done in the heat of the moment. The Cats had come off the rails and were trailing at this point in the 3rd, his stick is stuck in the glass (which would be annoying), and Lovell is in close contact with him and also gave him an accidental slash as he fell ... he reacted poorly, and may have just been going for Lovell's stick. Another way of looking at that is the way in which Johnston freed his stick from the glass. A poster of HF mentioned this and it's something I didn't think too much of until now ... If Lovell is not there, and it's just Johnston trying to get his stick free, why would he rotate his wrists, grip the stick with two hands and swing like it like a baseball bat? It would indeed look very strange in the manner than he did it. Johnston would have shown some reaction to this if it was completely an accident ... If you haven't already guessed, I'm in favor of the intent theory ... I just find it hard for example, for Johnston to explain why/how he freed his stick like that ... I can easily see how some think it's accidental, and it's certainly a very reckless act, but I also see a little from column A and a little from column B ... Reckless act + and injured player. You can make a case that a suspension should be for an act not a result, but I don't think you should discard player safety when making a decision, and Lovell is going to miss upwards of 6 weeks ... We should see a decision made tomorrow, but I say 8 games. He pulled his stick out and turned toward the play........the momentum of the pull and wanting to get back into the play is more than likely why his wrist rotated, etc............people are grasping at straws, trying too hard to make this something it was not, when bringing up things like that.......Lovell was down on the ice when he first tugged it.......Johnston was looking at his stick, and I'm not even sure he realized Lovell was back on his feet, when the stick came out.........Looking for little things like how he pulled his stick out is stupid.....fact is, his stick was stuck and he gave it a couple good yanks to get it out.....the same as any other player would have done. Saying he would have shown some reaction if it were an accident, is also trying to add something too it that isn't there........if he didn't realize he did it, he wouldn't turn toward the player.......if he had hit him and realized it, he would have turned for a reaction, or to see what hit his stick........to say there was any malicious intent there, is disgruntled fans, wanting it to be something it's not. It might be stupid to look for little things, but it's exactly what the league is doing to determine whether or not there was intent. Also, if you hit someone in the face with your stick hard enough to break their jaw, I'm pretty sure you'd know you did it. Your stick had to hit something hard. And again, I think it was extremely reckless, but it's going to be tough to prove intent.
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Post by porkchop on Feb 19, 2013 8:33:26 GMT -4
He pulled his stick out and turned toward the play........the momentum of the pull and wanting to get back into the play is more than likely why his wrist rotated, etc............people are grasping at straws, trying too hard to make this something it was not, when bringing up things like that.......Lovell was down on the ice when he first tugged it.......Johnston was looking at his stick, and I'm not even sure he realized Lovell was back on his feet, when the stick came out.........Looking for little things like how he pulled his stick out is stupid.....fact is, his stick was stuck and he gave it a couple good yanks to get it out.....the same as any other player would have done. Saying he would have shown some reaction if it were an accident, is also trying to add something too it that isn't there........if he didn't realize he did it, he wouldn't turn toward the player.......if he had hit him and realized it, he would have turned for a reaction, or to see what hit his stick........to say there was any malicious intent there, is disgruntled fans, wanting it to be something it's not. It might be stupid to look for little things, but it's exactly what the league is doing to determine whether or not there was intent. Also, if you hit someone in the face with your stick hard enough to break their jaw, I'm pretty sure you'd know you did it. Your stick had to hit something hard. And again, I think it was extremely reckless, but it's going to be tough to prove intent. I would agree with reckless......but not intent.
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Post by steveul on Feb 19, 2013 9:55:02 GMT -4
Another way of looking at that is the way in which Johnston freed his stick from the glass. A poster of HF mentioned this and it's something I didn't think too much of until now ... If Lovell is not there, and it's just Johnston trying to get his stick free, why would he rotate his wrists, grip the stick with two hands and swing like it like a baseball bat? It would indeed look very strange in the manner than he did it. Johnston tried to pull it out the other way but it didn't move ... so he changed his appraoch ... and it came out. What you are suggesting is that Johnston intentionally swung his stuck stick at Lovell. Swinging a stick at a player that up to that point he couldn't get free ... how could he possibly have that type of intent ? He would have to know that the stick would come loose.
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Post by DropThePuck on Feb 19, 2013 12:40:23 GMT -4
Huh? Anyone who has played hockey knows when something hits your stick, you'd feel it ... There's no you could hit someone's jaw (he knew Lovell was there) and not feel it or realize it. No chance. A case could be made for incidental and intentional ... It was done in the heat of the moment. The Cats had come off the rails and were trailing at this point in the 3rd, his stick is stuck in the glass (which would be annoying), and Lovell is in close contact with him and also gave him an accidental slash as he fell ... he reacted poorly, and may have just been going for Lovell's stick. Another way of looking at that is the way in which Johnston freed his stick from the glass. A poster of HF mentioned this and it's something I didn't think too much of until now ... If Lovell is not there, and it's just Johnston trying to get his stick free, why would he rotate his wrists, grip the stick with two hands and swing like it like a baseball bat? It would indeed look very strange in the manner than he did it. Johnston would have shown some reaction to this if it was completely an accident ... If you haven't already guessed, I'm in favor of the intent theory ... I just find it hard for example, for Johnston to explain why/how he freed his stick like that ... I can easily see how some think it's accidental, and it's certainly a very reckless act, but I also see a little from column A and a little from column B ... Reckless act + and injured player. You can make a case that a suspension should be for an act not a result, but I don't think you should discard player safety when making a decision, and Lovell is going to miss upwards of 6 weeks ... We should see a decision made tomorrow, but I say 8 games. He pulled his stick out and turned toward the play........the momentum of the pull and wanting to get back into the play is more than likely why his wrist rotated, etc............people are grasping at straws, trying too hard to make this something it was not, when bringing up things like that.......Lovell was down on the ice when he first tugged it.......Johnston was looking at his stick, and I'm not even sure he realized Lovell was back on his feet, when the stick came out.........Looking for little things like how he pulled his stick out is stupid.....fact is, his stick was stuck and he gave it a couple good yanks to get it out.....the same as any other player would have done. Saying he would have shown some reaction if it were an accident, is also trying to add something too it that isn't there........if he didn't realize he did it, he wouldn't turn toward the player.......if he had hit him and realized it, he would have turned for a reaction, or to see what hit his stick........to say there was any malicious intent there, is disgruntled fans, wanting it to be something it's not. Well said!
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Post by PlayHockey on Feb 19, 2013 18:25:39 GMT -4
Would it really matter if he was banned from the league for this forever. Some players just dont have the skill to control their actions and play reckless all the time. For example if Moore was gone form the NHL would it be a bad thing. For the overall good of hockey, players like these would be easy to replace and the rest of the real players would be better off.
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Post by porkchop on Feb 19, 2013 19:22:21 GMT -4
Would it really matter if he was banned from the league for this forever. Some players just dont have the skill to control their actions and play reckless all the time. For example if Moore was gone form the NHL would it be a bad thing. For the overall good of hockey, players like these would be easy to replace and the rest of the real players would be better off. You make it sound as if Johnston has a history of suspensions, dirty tactics, etc? He also has 27 points as a useful 2nd year player......it's not like he is just a one dimensional player.
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Post by price31 on Feb 19, 2013 23:03:45 GMT -4
Moose fans are a bunch of whinny babies! Wasnt intentional but was wreck less . 5 or less games.
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Post by price31 on Feb 19, 2013 23:05:16 GMT -4
Would it really matter if he was banned from the league for this forever. Some players just dont have the skill to control their actions and play reckless all the time. For example if Moore was gone form the NHL would it be a bad thing. For the overall good of hockey, players like these would be easy to replace and the rest of the real players would be better off. Real players? Typical moose fan.
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